We bought a reputable boat (Tartan) from a reputable dealer, that had been maintained by a reputable boat yard. We had a reputable survey done, and contracted reputable servicemen to do a rigging and mechanical inspection of the boat. In fact it was the same service people who had been taking care of the boat for several years and claimed to know it well.
Less than 10 hours of low power operation later the V-drive failed catastrophically, taking the transmission, bell housing, and coupling with it.
And thus began a nightmare repair. Walter machine insisted that their V-drive had never been installed on a Westerbeke engine using a Hurth transmission, that Tartan would never spec such a thing. (They did and it was.) We never found a bell housing and ended up reworking the old one. The coupling had to be custom machined. (At least Tartan came up with a drawing.) The new V-drive arrived from the factory sans the studs needed to mount it to the boat. The repair is still underway with no good idea of when the boat will be operable again.
It would be wonderful if I could say that this was the worst of it...but that would be untrue. Purchasing this boat has been the most frustrating, infuriating, endlessly troubling enterprise that I have ever fallen into. The water system didn't work. Much of the electrical system was the same. Stuff that was represented as being on the boat (like a V-berth mattress and auto pilot) weren't. Much of the running rigging failed the first time it was put under a load. Point blank, if I knew then what I know now I would seriously reconsider the wisdom of trying to retire onto a sailboat. (Then I would probably try to do it anyway - being seriously smitten by the ocean.)
One thing I have decided is that the previous owner, the broker, the surveyor, the boat yard, and the mechanics, all knew just how bad this boat was. It is inconceivable to me that anyone familiar with the thing could miss how badly abused she had been. Being an aviation person and not a marine person, I made the mistake of hiring and listening to the opinion of "experts," who clearly saw an out-of-town Mark coming when they needed to unload a problem boat.
Since then the experts at Tartan couldn't tell me what units they had designed into the boat. The experts at Walter Machine couldn't tell me what unit I needed - even when they had the old one in their hands. I have conflicting stories on the drip-less seal on the shaft, and have seen the worst kind of "craftsmanship" in every nook and corner of the boat. In fact I have yet to find a singe installation or repair that is even as good as "half-assed. Unused hose and wire filled the bilge. Interior parts had been removed for work and reinstalled with one screw out of six, mis-aligned, out of place. The head system was missing major parts, the head floor wasn't even secured to the boat.
So far as I can tell the pre-owned portion of the marine industry is seriously broken; and some of the stories I have heard from new boat buyers suggests the same is true industry wide.
There is a lot of debate about the sailing industry and its decline. Young people don't seem to be interested, us older folks know well that the journey is more past than future. There is a lot of debate about leisure dollars, the lure of the Internet, the lack of adventuring in the next generation, harassment from the Coast Guard and the ever growing security apparatus of Western Culture.
But maybe the answer is a lot more simple. The Marine industry has become a den of thieves. Designs are poor, quality control is non-existent, warranties are worthless...eventually people get tired of being fleeced, move on, and tell their friends to buy an RV.
Which is okay, if you don't mind being on the land. If you do, the marine industry sells the only tools for getting off shore. They may be ill conceived, poorly built, miserably maintained and overpriced tools...but they are the only ones around.
Stranger Things
2 weeks ago
There are reputable surveyors, and there are reputable brokers, and previous owners with a conscience. Unfortunately, you seemed to have struck out on all three.
ReplyDeleteI guess the only way to have any measure of certainty about the boat you buy is to survey it yourself. I'm not as knowledgable as a marine surveyor by any means, but I've done enough work on my own boats to know what to look for, and if I buy a different boat in the future, I will serve myself as surveyor. At the very least, there won't be any doubt about my motives, or who I'm working for.
Seems awful to impugn an entire industry, but I hear what you are saying (above). There is a great deal of profit-taking in the marine industry, and much less providing good service and value for the dollar.
I have two 1970's sailboats, one is a project boat and the other my current sailer.. and I have found the same thing..
ReplyDeleteSubstandard is the standard. I think that Tartan is better than most, but that is not saying a lot. Substandard (to me) through hulls, valves, plumbing was the norm. If they could get by with it they did. If it was hidden, so much the better. More profit..
The truth is that if you are going to own an older boat that is 30+ years old and you are going to take it more than swimming distance offshore, you had better be handy with tools and have them onboard while out and about. How many people drive 30+ year old cars around without tools and knowledge?? Only fools or the poor. The positive thing about owning an older boat is that time has tested just about everything. If the hull is still solid it was probably sufficiently built to go another 20 years. But everything has to be checked out.. everything!
I find your comments interesting. I have owned two Tartans; first a 30 and now a 1989 Tartan 372, hull number 28. The first was a project boat and in terrible shape when I bought her, so nothing was surprising. The 372 was bought from the original owner and I have owned her for 10 years. There were a few nasty surprises, with poor repairs being done, but luckily few and inexpensive.
ReplyDeleteI am also a lawyer who has represented several builders of yachts over the years and currently represent a client who has built and sold over 750 sail and motor yachts over the years. I have defended both builders in angry lawsuits over the years. Sometimes buyers equate buying a boat with buying an automobile or an airplane where production is standardized or at least well documented with proven components.
Boats are built very differently. Due to low volume, each one is something of a "one off" and often components such as engines and steering systems are installed because the builder can get a good deal on that item that month. This leads to inconsistent builds and spotty quality control.
Unfortunately, the boating business is very competitive and the margins are very low. Builders often just do not have the money to honor warranty claims to the buyer's (sometimes unrealistic) expectations. Builders regularly go bankrupt.
The quality of workers in the marine industry is also very spotty. It is hard, difficult work and often the people in it are not the most stable and dependable. Surveyors are no exception. Some are good, some are terrible, and even the best just miss stuff.
Brokers are often just surviving one deal to the next and may be desperate for a sale. It is a low volume business and one sale may mean avoiding eviction, repossession, etc.
I think every boat owner really needs to really understand their boat and do as much of the work as possible themselves and watch very carefully any work they hire out. If you find a good repair person, they are gold and often are priced accordingly.
So accurate and very well stated.
DeleteSo accurate and very well stated.
DeleteFrom my experience, it's cheaper, more enjoyable and safer to buy a 10-15 year old boat in good shape than a 30+ year old boat needing a refit. I also had a bad experience and now spare no efforts in warning other wanna-be sailors/cruisers to "do the math" and to think logically instead of emotionally (sailboats are potent emotional drivers).
ReplyDeleteOlder boats are OK if new owners focus on what is essential and pay little attention to aesthetics, interior layout etc.
From my experience, it's cheaper, more enjoyable and safer to buy a 10-15 year old boat in good shape than a 30+ year old boat needing a refit. I also had a bad experience and now spare no efforts in warning other wanna-be sailors/cruisers to "do the math" and to think logically instead of emotionally (sailboats are potent emotional drivers).
ReplyDeleteOlder boats are OK if new owners focus on what is essential and pay little attention to aesthetics, interior layout etc.